MUBUTV Insider Podcast Episode Transcript
[Alex Shenitsky]

Ritch Esra: Thank you so much Alex for doing this, I really appreciate it.

Alex Shenitsky: No problem. I’m happy to be doing this with you guys.

Ritch Esra: You know I wanted to ask you, do you remember -- sort of going back to the beginning of your life -- do you remember when in your life that you knew that the music business was gonna be your career path?

Alex Shenitsky: I remember when I realized there was a music business behind these bands that I was seeing. I remember getting a little bit of a glimpse back behind the scenes with some bands that I was around that kind of got bigger. I was like, ‘Well, who’s that guy on the bus’ and they were like, ‘Well, that’s our manager, and that’s our tour manager.’ It’s like, ‘Those are real jobs? You can actually manage you idiots and you get paid for it?’ That was probably around 16 years old. I mean, 15, 16 years old. From then on I kind of always dabbled in booking shows from then, managing my friends' bands, going on the road selling merch. All those things you do.

Eric Knight: Great! This is Eric, by the way. Thank you so much Alex for joining us. You’ve worked in A&R, music publishing and artist management for almost 15 years now. What are the most significant changes you’ve seen since you’ve started, and how was it, and how has it changed in terms of the marketplace today?

Alex Shenitsky: I mean, I think the biggest change that, for A&R, is really just the way you find music now. It’s just simply the evolution of technology. Before all this stuff we had, you actually had to go to shows, and listened to demo tapes, and you didn’t necessarily know. Now you kind of -- you see it all before you actually even have to see it in person and you kinda know what you’re getting yourself into.
Other than that, I mean, the creative aspects of making records, and doing deals, and just working with people those things don’t really change too, too much. I think, really, it’s just how we find the stuff really.

Ritch Esra: It’s interesting in terms of finding it. One of the things that I’ve seen, and you’re sort of in the thick of this, is that do you find that today artists managers have more responsibility in terms of the development process of new talent than they did in the past?

Alex Shenitsky: Yes. The role of the manager is definitely become- you do everything. You usually have to get in early and be an early believer. Where other facets of the business you don’t always do that. Managers tend to be the first ones in and help connect a lot of the dots that artists need help with. Especially this day-and-age where there’s a lot of dots to connect. More than there used to be. Then again it also is lending, it’s giving power back to the artist because they’re able to -- they’re so many more opportunities that managers are able to help tap into that they weren’t able to before.
Where they didn’t need a label! Now they don’t need a label, necessarily, at their stage in the game. Managers are labels, managers are the booking agent, they’re the promoters, they’re all these things. I think for the first 75% of an artist's career, I think.

Ritch Esra: Which sort of gets me into the whole thing that -- as you’re speaking about that I realize, not only the responsibilities but you’re also talking about the actual level that an artist themselves needs to be at in terms of that process. That so much of that has been put back not only on the manager to create those opportunities but on the artists themselves creatively.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah! I think now the responsibility has shifted a bit on -- where it used to be you get signed and you look at a label and say ‘what are you’re gonna to do?’ I still think there’s an element of that. Of course, labels bring a huge value in lots of areas but I think warranting it and getting to a point where you need those services because there’s so much in-between now. I mean, there’s so much -- there’s a huge space for artists to live that aren’t necessarily on a major label or in this mainstream space. There’s a lot of in between now because everyone can put out music. You can be partners with a manager, and have a successful career, and never really be with a quote-on-quote-label.

Eric Knight: Interesting. Let me ask you, Alex, has streaming altered what you can or can’t break in today’s marketplace.

Alex Shenitsky: Has it changed what we can or can’t break?…. I don’t think so! I think, or at least I’d like to believe at the end of the day the best -- the cream rise to the top and the best stuff… The ability for these different avenues for ears to find music is so great I do believe that stuff -- it’s not that there’s a lot of great music that doesn’t get discovered that happens a lot too, but I do think that generally speaking the avenues are all there. So I think if anything it’s opening up more doors for more songs to get more exposure that it ever has, than there has ever been! There’s a lot of spots on the internet.

Ritch Esra: No, but that’s precisely the point! It’s interesting hearing you coming from your experience because -- I mean, I look at things like Billie Eilish, I look at some of these AWAL artists who are not necessarily household names. I mean, Billie Eilish is somebody who’s known within the business and what’s fascinating to me about her is that she seems to be maybe the exception to this. It’s that no one, no matter how much interest there was in those 13 songs she put out before this album, none of them were hit records. None of them got any radio play but they made an enormous impact to her audience! So much so that when that album came out there wasn’t only interest in it for a minute, there was real interest in her as an artist, and you know better than anyone the enormous difference between the ability to break a record and the ability to break an artist. What they managed to do is break an artist and then radio seemed to follow. That’s why I was asking that question about, do you think that there’s a big difference in what can break? What Eric was talking about because it seems like the success [of] radio, streaming play or whatever, forced radio onto the record. That the streaming did that as opposed to vice versa.

Alex Shenitsky: I think that sorta scenario has played out before just a little bit differently. Not necessarily streaming but when, in the early days working around Fall Out Boy, they were touring around the country, they were playing arenas in markets and they weren’t getting radio play.
The promo guys would literally go the station and be like, ‘They’re selling arenas in your market. It’s already happening.’ It kinda forced radio to have to pay attention to them. I think that even happened with Motley Crew, but streaming has definitely been almost the new live show in this sense.

Ritch Esra: Alex, as a vetran executive in A&R, and in publishing, and in management I’m curious do you find that new artists today, or new acts, are more savvy and knowledgeable about their chosen career path than in previous eras? In your experience?

Alex Shenitsky: Yes, they have to be! It’s a necessary thing and I think it’s one of the things a lot of artists struggle with. It’s having to be more business savvy than they’d like to be. You know, hopefully you can get to a point where you can just focus on your music, and you have a manager, and people that help with all this other stuff and you really can just focus on the music. Even at that point the top level artists they still have to do the social media game, they still have to do these things and be somewhat knowledgeable about it. It’s definitely part of it. I think with getting the power -- With all the power comes responsibility.

Ritch Esra: Yeah, it’s something I’m always emphasizing to artists. In the revolution that we’ve gone through in the last 18 years it’s more important than ever because there’s so much new information and new knowledge that they need to do. It’s not an era, unfortunately, where they can just focus on their music and leave all of that to someone else. There is no someone else, as you were pointing out, in the beginning of the career. So much of that has to be their responsibility. This is a sea change that I see, where a lot of artists are very resistant to it… You’re on the front lines of that! A lot of artists, they’re not as quick to realize ‘My god, this is my life, this is my career, I can’t just turn this over to someone else.’

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah! I mean this social media stuff, and all this stuff, the personal touch it matters. You can’t really phone that stuff in authentically. I have this conversation with artists I manage regularly. Where they’re like… You know they don’t wanna do this-or-that. Hopefully people have someone -- a manager or a friend that can point them at a few things and be like, ‘This is really cool, something that you do’ you know hopefully helps them in the right direction, and help them find a way to enjoy it, and realize what they’re sharing with the world is their unique perspective. Which I think is, at the end of the day, what everyone’s trying to hopefully accomplish by putting all this stuff out there on social media is showing their unique perspective on their world. So I think it’s important for artists to remember [that] it is an important part of what’s happening right now. It is an important part of people understanding your narrative, and where you’re coming from, and what sets you apart from other artists in the same genre.

Eric Knight: Exactly, and I think it’s another important point that me and Ritch are always talking about.
You know, the great manager Andy Gould saying that, ‘I can’t want it more than they do so if they can’t realize from the get-go that they gotta get off their ass and get on it then it’s just not gonna come to them.’ It’s just not gonna happen, you know.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah, and that’s definitely been… I’ve learned the hard way and I’m sure Andy Gould would probably… Got that perspective from artists that he worked with and had amazing talent but didn’t want to do all the other things, and I’ve definitely been in that position. Where I’ve, I’ve been like, ‘Man, this guy has it all but I can’t want it more than them.’

Eric Knight: Right, exactly.

Ritch Esra: Yeah because, like Andy was saying. He once said that on a panel that I did and the truth is he said, “‘Cause I can’t get up there and write the songs for them.’”

Alex Shenitsky: Right!

Ritch Esra: ‘‘I can’t get out there and pull them outta bed and make them wanna do that. I can’t do the shows.’ He said, ‘When I come across an artist that I feel that way about and I see that quality in them, I run.’

Alex Shenitsky: That’s some really great advice right there.

Ritch Esra: Yeah.

Alex Shenitsky: I definitely -- I coulda used a page outta that book a few a times earlier on.

Eric Knight: I think there’s an illusion too, with artists, that they expect -- You know, they see the glamour and the end results of an artist’s career that’s come to them. They don’t realize the ten or fifteen years of just eating shit day-in and day-out. That it’s a career! It’s a lifestyle! It’s like a job like anything else. A lot of people get a wakeup call when they realize, ‘Oh shit, I gotta start doing this like a job.’

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah, and I think they don’t realize how hard it is.

Eric Knight: Oh!

Ritch Esra: Yeah, they don’t.

Eric Knight: It’s harder than probably any other career that you could choose to take on.

Alex Shenitsky: It is a real grind. I’m sure it all seems glamorous. The no sleep, the lack of food, the pressure, the ups and downs day-to-day. It’s intense! It’s an intense career, but like Andy said I can’t do any of that stuff.

Eric Knight: Right. Let me ask you, Alex -- I think this is an important one for all our listeners -- at what point do you feel, in your estimation, does an artist need management?

Alex Shenitsky: I mean, I think it could start at day one. What need management can mean… It can mean a lotta different things. It can mean -- some people might say you don’t need a manager until you’re making X amount of dollars a month. I, to me… I’ve jumped in on projects day one, I’ve jumbled in on projects [after] the day has left the station. It really comes down to the music. I think if you’re a manager, or you're an artist… If you’re a manager and you really believe in an artist, and they have the stuff going on that ticks a lot of the boxes I think it’s time for the manager to jump in, whoever that is. I think if you’re an artist and you’re getting to the point where your music is doing well, people are paying attention, there are people like managers that are actually listening to your stuff, that might be a time to get a manager. If you just started a project and you wrote three songs, and you think you need a manager now, and never played a show I would say that might not be the best time for a manager. I think if some things -- If you can look at yourself honestly and say, ‘Things are moving in the right direction I could use some help,’ that’s the right time.

Eric Knight: Yeah, are you an advocate of that artist? I’m from the school -- I manage acts as well. I’m on both sides. I’m on the performing and on the management side. So I’m wondering if you can speak to… I think artists can be doing this on their own initially. I mean, even if there’s nobody coming knocking on their door. Which typically there isn’t in the very beginning stages. Are you a big advocate that artists should be just hustling until that time comes where they can’t do it anymore?

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah, I mean the artists that I work with that are in their early stages, so to speak, overtime you start to find these character traits in people where you’re like, ‘Alright this guy’s a go-getter, or girl’s a go-getter. They’re doing this with or without me.’ Where I can add value -- even if it’s day one and they have some amazing music and I know the type of person -- I get involved because I know they’re not just gonna be sitting looking at me going, ‘What’re you doing?’

Eric Knight: Right.

Alex Shenitsky: It does take a lot of effort. Nowadays people wanna hear from the artist! People don’t wanna talk to some person at work. It’s like, we’re all kinda out there on social media then all of a sudden you’re gonna throw someone in the mix. Unless you’re at that level where it’s like you really need to have someone buffer your stuff but even when I’m managing an act I always will push an artist to do the personal touch because that means more than me reaching out more times than not.

Ritch Esra: You know, what’s interesting listening to you is that you’re giving the background, the real hardcore scenario of what needs to be done. I mean, that’s what Eric’s point was.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah.

Ritch Esra: I guess what’s interesting about it, Alex, is that one of the most common misconceptions I come across in my own career with artists over the last 15 years is this erroneous belief: if I have a manger they will bring my career to me, they will get me a career. It’s like the manager is somehow some sort of silver bullet.

Eric Knight: Messiah, like a messiah!

Ritch Esra: It’s a messiah, yeah!

Eric Knight: Like that’s gonna be the answer. The magic bullet.

Ritch Esra: ‘That’s all I’m missing! If I had that, everything will just come to me.”

Eric Knight: And that’s not the reality.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah. I mean it’s the same with a manager, the same with a booking agent, the same with a label. No one person is going to be the magic and if there was that one person -- maybe there’s a couple a people we can point out in the business -- but if there was that one person that was just like everything turned to gold we’d all know about it. Let’s put it that way.

Ritch Esra: Well of course! It’s not a reality. Back in the day I used to think, well giant managers who handle superstars can do it. Mostly you find that those kids of managers, you know the Cliff Burnstiens or the Irving Azoff’s, all their time is spent on the one client…. That’s what has occupied their whole life!

Eric Knight: Yeah.

Alex Shenitsky: 100%. I mean, yeah. You’re right on with that.

Ritch Esra: You know, I wanted to ask you. You’ve worked for a major publisher, you’ve worked for a major label as well as an independent joint venture label, and I’m wondering, for our listeners, can you talk about what each of those experiences taught you?

Alex Shenitsky: I mean… In the end I think just having an entrepreneurial kinda spirit in any facet of this business is gonna be helpful but definitely in A&R. Whether you’re at a smaller label where you don’t have all the resources, you have to make things happen, you have to pull favors, you have to get really, really creative. When you’re at a bigger company there’s still different struggles but it may not be your budget. It may just be getting the attention you need for your artist. Or it’s the internal -- yeah, I mean that tends to be a lot -- whether it’s the internal struggle on the front side of getting the deal done or the backside, whatever you wanna call the backside, getting the deal out and then dealing with all the struggles when working a big company that has a lotta releases. It all comes down to just being creative, and being resourceful, and sort of just having an entrepreneurial spirit. I think you have to have that to succeed in this business right now.

Eric Knight: Great. Let me ask you, what is your specific criteria for seriously considering signing an artist today and how has it evolved over the last several years?

Alex Shenitsky: It all really comes down to the songs for me. There’s a lot of other stuff but the main thing is the songs. Nothing else really matters when there’s great songs. The production doesn’t matter as much. Who’s on the team doesn’t matter as much. How many followers they have on whatever doesn’t matter as much. When the music is really, really great that’s -- for me, it has to be what it is. Especially for me now. If I don’t love it, it just doesn’t -- I can’t get excited.

Eric Knight: Yeah, it’s the foundation of everything. Without that, like Don Grierson the late, great Don Grierson said, “It all starts with the music” and yeah we totally agree. We’re definitely from that -- I think that’s the impetus for everything.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah! I think if it’s not that then, I don’t know, you’re not into this for the same reasons that we’re into this.

Ritch Esra: Alex, we touched on this before and I just wanna go a little deeper into. In that, a lot of the aspects of an artists creativity, meaning their personal narrative, have become so important today. I’m wondering, do you see that in terms of the artists that break? I think of people like Cardi B, people like Arianna Grande, people like Billie Eilish. These people have developed very, very deep connections with their audience based on sort of a deeper level of personal connection about who these people are that’s distinct from just their music. I’m curious, as an A&R executive who’s been at this for a long time, if you’re seeing more of that and if you feel artists need to be creatively willing to go there.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah! I think, as you said, the ones that have seemed to have really broken through have that narrative. I think, yeah, it’s going… It’s going beyond the music now. Where people find this artist and they fall in love with their lyrics, and now they’re able to actually find out the story behind it, and from there this deep connection develops. Before we had all this technology it was a lot harder; but I think now kids, people, they’re able to dig for more. They wanna know and when there’s a real story, there’s something deep that people can relate to, yeah I think that is a big reason why you’re seeing certain artists develop these fanatical fan bases and breaking through.

Ritch Esra: Yeah, it’s like a certain level of authenticity has to be there and the audience and the culture can smell it when there isn’t.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah. I mean, I think that’s what labels have realized that more; and that’s why they’re looking at things that have kind of already developed because it’s real. It’s developed. It’s happening, it’s authentic, it’s already… The train has left the station. That’s when I think these bigger labels are getting involved now ‘cause I think for them it’s a better bet. For them it’s a better bet to go after something that is real as opposed to them waste a bunch of money on something someone just thinks might be good.

Eric Knight: Yeah, this is a great segue into the next question, Alex. With all of the tools available today -- like websites, online, social media, streaming -- is there a certain level of development or an expectation of a certain level of market awareness that labels and managers are expecting from new acts before they even get involved?

Alex Shenitsky: I think there’s a lot of… You hope for all these things. I think what that is is actually, whether it’s the press… I think what is significant in moving the needle, is kind of constantly changing. So, you know, I think that [is] sort of dictating where things are going. Whatever the next thing is. If it has to hit a certain level, again, it’s all gonna depend on the artist and the songs.

Ritch Esra: Yeah, it is interesting though. In following up on Eric’s question, your answer really affects what an artist must or mustn't do in terms of getting themselves visible or getting the attention of a label; and you’re right! As I’m listening, that goal post or that criteria seems to shift more-and-more-and-more, and if we get deeper into it it’s also not the same for each genre.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah, I mean it’s so changing, and every genre is also changing, and what meets something… Is it the co-sign from the other artist? Is it the big look on TV? There’s artists getting looks on TV that aren’t signed and no one really cares about. When I say no one cares about, labels aren’t chasing ‘em down. It’s just interesting to see what people get excited about or don’t get excited about nowadays. It just seems to be changing all the time.

Ritch Esra: You know what’s interesting about listening to you is I remember -- and as I’m listening to you I’m thinking the perfect illustrations of this, and I’ve gone on the record of saying this before, are these TV talent shows! The American Idol’s, The Voice’s. These things are great TV but they are horrible at delivering talent! You and I can count on one hand, Alex, one hand how many artists have broken out of American Idol. We can’t even name on one hand how many have broken out of The Voice ‘cause none of them have. What is so interesting you look at -- how many seasons of American Idol and we have, what, three-or-four artists. It’s like, Irving Azoff said in an interview. He said, ‘it’s a whole different process, a whole different route that one must go to break as an artist, than it is to just be welcomed into a home as a television star. There’s no context on TV. You can just present yourself and that’s it, but that doesn’t mean that when that show ends anyone is gonna care about you. No matter how many times or how much win you have on those shows.’ Very few people seem to talk about that.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah! I mean, it extends online to YouTube. You see something get a lot of views it’s like -- whatever it is, whether it’s a television… A show on YouTube or a music video. It’s real easy for people to click once. It’s free. It’s another thing for people to go buy a concert ticket.

Ritch Esra: Exactly.

Alex Shenitsky: Buy a T-Shirt and be invested as a fan. It’s a big difference. We say that and I think it is misleading! You see things that have all these big numbers and you think that it should be the biggest thing in the world, but it doesn’t mean they’re all gonna be Justin Bieber. Clearly.

Ritch Esra: Yeah, and they’re equating apples with oranges. I wanted to ask you, can you talk about the specific non-creative qualities that you look for in an artist that you’re serious about signing or getting involved with? The reason I ask that, Alex, is because I know someone who has the level of experience that you do in this business, has fallen in love with artists, thinks that they’re great, loves the music, and for whatever reason you find out, ‘you know what, this really isn’t for me.’
For whatever reason and it’s usually not to do with the level of creativity. So, I’m wondering for our listeners, as an executive who’s very experienced and now who manages people and puts records out can you walk about those non-creative qualities that you’re looking for?

Alex Shenitsky: It’s just a level of maturity, I think. It doesn’t have to be the strongest work ethic. I just look for people that are mature and realistic. In that, I’ve dealt with 18 year olds that are mature and realistic and I’ve dealt with 35 year olds that are not mature and not realistic. So it can really--you never know where you’re gonna find it and that can mean a few different things. I just think this is a crazy business to be in and I think you have to be patient and able to roll with the punches and I think maturity-- generally that comes with maturity, the ability to do that. I think it is just looking for those types of people because we’re gonna have really good days, probably at least in the beginning there’s gonna be more bad days than good days. Generally, some worse than others. It’s not gonna be… This isn’t easy and I wanna be around people that I wanna be around. So people that are positive, people that are mature, people that just have--are just generally good to be around, good people! Life is too short to be around shitty people. That kind of plays into my decision making alot.

Ritch Esra: Okay! Alright, great.

Eric Knight: Going with that question, for artists starting out how do they identify who their audience is? This is, I mean, a crucial one that a lot of artists - they just don’t have a clue about it! I’m just curious to get your thoughts on that.

Alex Shenitsky: I mean, I think… It’s hard… You don’t really know who your audience is until it sort of finds you, it seems. I always strategize and you think about… There’s the obvious playlists that you wanna try and get into and the certain things like that… I put out a band that’s like a surf rock band. We know we’re gonna try and go after these surf rock playlists. We kinda know that audience a little bit but it’s not always that specific. So I think that you don’t always know! You can’t pick your audience.

Eric Knight: Right, right. Let me ask you, Alex, are albums even a relevant model today for an unknown artist without a sizable audience? It seems like we’ve gone back, the pendulum swung back into a singles based thing like back in the sixties and stuff where there was--or fifties--singles were just coming out now; and it seems like there’s a lot more of it happening where you’re just seeing a continuous flow versus the traditional album. I’m just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Alex Shenitsky: I mean, I think putting out music consistently is definitely--I think that’s the key now. Whether it’s--

Eric Knight: That’s the track.

Alex Shenitsky: Putting out a song a month, or putting out an EP a month, or putting out an album every two months. You’re Drake and you’re just putting out hundreds and hundreds of songs…. I think part of it, to me, in developing artists when I think about them in ten years I try to think about what the career would be. Streaming is going to be, is a revenue model for artists to support themselves. A lot of that is gonna come down to how much catalouge you have up available for people to listen to. You don’t know in one year, five years, ten years who is gonna stumble upon and how many thousands of people are gonna stumble upon your music; but I think if you’re serious about developing and breaking in some level, whatever that may be, it’s not gonna--I don’t believe it’s just gonna happen. You certainly won’t have the longevity just releasing one song every once in a while or one record a year. I think now you need to be doing more than that to be relevant and if you really want to have a sustainable revenue for yourself in the future you need to have a catalog.

Eric Knight: Do you think that’s across all genres? Does that speak to all genres: Rock, Pop, R&B, Hip-Hop?

Alex Shenitsky: I think it’s a little different. I think it is different genre-to-genre. I think hip-hop and pop you might… Well, hip-hop I think you might see more releases with more songs on them. Rock tends to be a little more formulaic where it tends to be an EP here, an EP there, maybe an album there. I think there’s certain genres that tend to stick to formulas a little bit more but generally I think the overall theme is--

Eric Knight: More creative output.

Alex Shenitsky: The consistency. Yeah! The consistency. It’s hard to break through. As we were saying, there’s so many things out there. I think one of the ways to break through--other than making yourself unique and having this narrative distinguishing yourself--I think is having a quality catalogue of music up there. Like you were saying it all goes back to the music.

Ritch Esra: You know it’s interesting, as I’m listening to you I’m remembering a conversation I had with Mike Caren recently who talked about this very issue you’re addressing. He said [that] even at a big star level--he was talking about a recent project he did with David Guetta. He said Guetta spent a lot of time preparing, and writing, and producing the current album; and he said what he found--which was something that he had not found before with artists at that level--was that the idea of a David Guetta, even at his level, putting an album out he said what has happened in the world and the culture of streaming consumption that we live in today is that the consumption process has become so accelerated that within eight-to-ten weeks the audience had gone through practically every track and he said, “And we have the data to back that up.” Then he said, “What we began seeing on the sites and on social media is when are you coming with the next one? When are you coming with the next one? When are you--and it’s like spit it up, and push it out, and next, next.” Then he said, “It made us realize perhaps this wasn’t the right approach. Even with people at that level on a worldwide basis perhaps it’s not right to come with this large body of work and say here it is. That maybe it was something we hold back and just put track after track and really market and give context to each of those in a way that we weren’t doing.”
He said… “Creatively and business wise you can not put out records every eight weeks.”
That’s impossible at that level. So it’s just interesting hearing you because even at a big level the whole model of albums, body of work--and maybe it’s the genre or artist that he is--doesn’t seem to work! The consumption takes… Is too quick!

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah! As you say, that would be pretty expensive to make a David Guetta record every eight weeks. I think you have to be strategic with it. I think… Yeah, it’s singles. It’s not necessarily doing an album. It’s definitely that and pop music, and dance music, and rhythmic music. I think that’s become the new challenge. It’s being able to stay relevant when you’re at that level because these guys are used to spending six months making an album.

Eric Knight: Right.

Alex Shenitsky: You can’t go away for six months anymore!

Eric Knight: The songs are having a shorter shelf life now! The minute they come out, the record comes out, it’s like you’re done in a week. This is something that’s taken two, three, four years of my life to write and get together. Within a matter of a week that’s it! It’s over.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah, yeah.

Ritch Esra: They addressed this in an interview… I guess it was about when Arianna Grande put the last record out they did an interview with Scooter! He said… The question was how did you manage--or how did Ariana Grande manage--to get an entire record written, recorded, mixed, mastered, and out within six months? He said, “Well, she really wanted to do it because,” and this was interesting in relation to what we’re talking about. He said, “because we realized, from a business point of view, she was not going to be available for any recording for the next nine to twelve months because she’s doing a hundred-fifty-two date world tour. So that’s out! The possibility of what was we either tour off the last record, which she didn’t wanna to do, or she speeds this whole thing up and puts another full album out.” Which, as you know, an artist at that superstar level to do that in six months! Even that is unbelievable she was able to do that quickly. Fully done, twelve songs.

Alex Shenitsky: Yup. A hundred percent. I mean, it has to definitely do with her getting what it takes to stay where she’s at.

Ritch Esra: Precisely. Let me ask you something, Alex, as a manager how important is it for you to understand the culture of the audience that your artist connects with?

Alex Shenitsky: I think it’s really--more than ever I think it’s important for the manager to really understand that world where their artist is coming from because you’re on the front lines. You’re--for a long time as you said--you’re the label. That being said, if you’re not real [then] it’s gonna be a forced thing. Especially with management now I definlity tend to get… Well, one I go with a lot of things I just genuinely love musically and it tends to be things I understand the scenes behind them; but yeah it would be hard to do that any other way.
Eric Knight: Let me ask you, Alex, is live performance essential if you’re going to break as an artist?

Alex Shenitsky: Ultimately if you want... Ultimately, if you really want to break big you’re going to have to get out there and perform. There’s gonna have to be a live visual people wanna see. There’s a ceiling, there’s gonna be a ceiling if you don’t have some sort of live show. I think, do you need to get in a van and just go around the country like we used to? No, I think there’s other more strategic ways to do things; but I do believe playing shows… I really believe in bands coming from somewhere and representing where they’re from! If you… If you’re a great artist I would think that the people in your community will support you and you probably have some great shows! So I don’t know why you wouldn’t do that.

Ritch Esra: Yeah, last year I did a panel at Muse Expo and Pete Ganbarg was on there and he talked about this very thing with Twenty One Pilots. He said, “When we first,” long before the first singing he said, “They had Beatle Mania in Columbus, Ohio.” He said it was insane! They had really built up a very, very strong live following. He said, what was fascinating he said, “Our faith in the signing of them” when Janick signed them to Ramen he said, “our faith was based on the fact that they had built this.” He said, “When we put the first record out, going back about four albums, and we went to the first show which was in Philadelphia,” he said there was like six people. Six, seven people that showed up. It had not translated but he said, “We knew that you have to build that.” The live aspect, I mean you take a band like that, the live aspect is more crucial than streams or social, or anything else in that particular world. You were involved with, you know Fall Out Boy, and you gave the illustration of that before their record deal. That they were doing huge business live! I think that that’s, today especially, that that’s absolutely crucial.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah, I mean and just [as] a form of revenue stream that’s where you can really make the Lion’s Share of money as an artist. I think if it’s something that you’re pursuing--if you’re pursing a career as an artist I definitely would be recommending-whatever genre it is--perfecting your live show and making it great.

Ritch Esra: Let me ask you something about… Historically, you’ve been in A&R, a publisher. From that point of view when you were signing things, how important was an artists team when you were considering singing them? You know their manager, their agent, their attorney, their publisher. Did those things factor in if you were considering signing things when you were an A&R executive?

Alex Shenitsky: Nah, I mean it was always the music first and if they had an awesome lawyer or manager already on board--or a booking agent-- that was a bonus. Usually, even if we sign something and they didn’t have that whole team, and a lot of times they didn’t, I was confident in sharing that music with my friends that were managers, booking agents, and lawyers, and helping the band put together an awesome--a really awesome team! I always felt like we would be able to pull the team together when the music was great, so.

Eric Knight: Yeah. Let me ask you, Alex, today how much of a fanbase does an artist need before they can tour? Do you feel in your estimation?

Alex Shenitsky: I mean, I wouldn’t be out there just… I would be starting to do things regionally. I mean, that’s… For touring I think you really should be coming from somewhere and developing a following in your hometown, and then kinda branching out. Conquer the city before you conquer the state before you conquer the country kinda thing. That’s sort of how I see it. Now if you’re from… If you’re a band from Virginia beach, or if you’re a band from New York, or if you’re a band from Philly and you’re gonna go on the road and you’re gonna play a bunch of shows… You’re gonna go play Phoenix Arizona, you’re gonna go on tour and play Phoenix Arizona--you’re gonna drive all the way out there--you better know that you’re gonna come back and play Phoenix Arizona again or you’re just wasting a lot of gas money.

Eric Knight: Right.

Alex Shenitsky: It takes more than one show. So I think it’s more about focusing your efforts.

Ritch Esra: You know let me ask you does artist development, in your mind Alex, does it differ from genre-to-genre?

Alex Shenitsky: Not really. I think most, generally speaking, the needs are kind of the same whether you’re a rock band or you’re a hip-hop artist. You know it’s music. So I think having these things, all these things we’ve spoken about today--you know having the narrative, and having a live show, and developing those things, and developing a fanbase--it’s hand-to-hand combat no matter what it is.

Eric Knight: Yeah, absolutely. Let me ask you, today as a manager have you found certain international territories in the world are more to newer artists or specific styles of music than others?

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah! I mean I think… I’ve found--in South East Asia, and Japan, and Australia there’s quite an affinity for a lot of American music so I find just culturally I’ve seen a lot of synergy there. Also I’ve seen Germany be a really great country for a lot of artists to get some traction as well in early days.

Ritch Esra: Alex I wanna ask you sort of a personal-professional question. That is, you’ve been in this profession long enough, to you what are the qualities that make a great A&R person? What are they to you?

Alex Shenitsky: It really is gonna come down to having passion. Passion for the music, for the artists, and I think if you don’t have that it’s a hard job. I know it seems like a job that can be glamorous, great job but I think if you don’t have the passion, and the commitment, and the drive for the music and for the artists and really, really believe it… There’s a lot of folks I think they may not even like music but somehow they got a job doing A&R. It’s amazing.

Ritch Esra: Wow! I would hate to have the job of A&R--I mean, having been an A&R person myself--I’d hate to have the job if you really don’t like music. Have you ever met an A&R person that didn’t like music? Really?

Alex Shenitsky: I’ve--there’s a couple people I’ve wondered about for certain.
Ritch Esra: Wow!

Eric Knight: Wow.

Ritch Esra: That’s fascinating.

Alex Shenitsky: But I think to make a great A&R I think, like, you gotta love the music. I mean, I’ve been really fortunate to work with some amazing guys that are just real music guys, real record guys, that truly love what they do; and I think those are the guys and girls--women, men--that artists wanna work with! They wanna work with people that are committed, and passionate, and driven to help these people achieve their dreams! At the end of the day you’re trying to help someone achieve a childhood dream and it should be taken really seriously.

Ritch Esra: It’s interesting as you’re speaking about that. I did A&R at Arista and I remember once Clive Davis--who’s kind of a renowned executive in terms of being a record man. I mean him, Ahmet Ertegun, Berry Gordy, I mean these are people historically who have been acknowledged as record men; and he was asked this question and he said, ‘you know, look!’ He said, ‘one of the things that I realize, I have a specific skill set,’ but he said, ‘it’s not the only skill set that works in my position!’ He said, ‘I have tremendous respect for David Geffen who doesn’t have my skill sets. He’s not a record man--per say like Ahmet, or myself, or Berry,’ but he said David has phenomenal instincts about talent. That’s a different skill set! He said, ‘You know, when I look at Jimmy Iovine I think not only does he have great instincts but Jimmy’s actually one who has skill sets that none of us have. He can actually go into the studio and make the record. That’s something quite, quite different. That’s a different kind of skill set.’ So it’s almost like--you know when you look at different producers some can write the song, can put their stamp on it, some just know how to bring out the best in an artist but there’s not one particular way of being a great A&R person. It’s almost like, you know your skill sets… I guess there’s many spokes to the center of the wheel was his point.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah, and I mean that’s what I’m… It’s hard to pinpoint really specific traits other than really just having--you know, you got people you mentioned. These are passionate music--

Ritch Esra: Yeah!

Alex Shenitsky: Lived, lived it and are the greats! The skills can vary but the passion for the job and just the understanding of the commitment you’re taking when you sign up with an artist, those are the things that are important.

Ritch Esra: You know Alex I wanted to ask you, are there any specific books, or videos, or programs that you think--or that you’d like to recommend that artists should be reading to educate themselves? Are there any that come to mind that you’re really passionate about or really find value in?

Alex Shenitsky: There’s only one that I’d recommend to young music executives and it is All You Need to Know About The Music Business, you’ve probably heard of it, by Donald Passman.
Ritch Esra: Sure, absolutely.

Eric Knight: Absolutely, it’s the bible.

Ritch Esra: It’s funny, I have a first edition that Don gave me when that book came out in the nineties I think. I still have it on my bookshelf and it’s in its eight or ninth edition now.
[Laughs]

Alex Shenitsky: You know what and it wouldn’t matter! You can still--to me, I pick that book up, there’s always something in there you can pull from there.

Ritch Esra: Absolutely! Okay.

Eric Knight: Alex, what have your biggest mistakes taught you?

Alex Shenitsky: [Signs] Listen to my gut more! You know when I don’t go with my gut--when I, you know, when I know when I should’ve done something a little differently and I didn’t listen to my first instinct, not all the time, but usually is… I’ve learned I need to go with my gut.

Eric Knight: Interesting.

Ritch Esra: You know, do you think, this is a good time for new artists to come into the market? Are you excited about the times that we’re in? I’m asking that question of you specifically because you’re somebody that has inside history with this business and has seen it go through the transformations. Are you excited about the era that we’re in specifically? Or the era that we’re heading into as far as new artists, and bands, and talent?

Alex Shenitsky: Absolutely!

Ritch Esra: Okay and why?

Alex Shenitsky: Well, when I first started doing A&R it was like the death of the CD. All the older A&R guys that had been around were like, ‘Man you got in the business at the wrong time, dude.’

Ritch Esra: Right.

Alex Shenitsky: It was definitely scary! I watched the labels close, and merge, and all that stuff. Now we’ve kind of come out on the other side. The idea of starting a record label doesn’t sound so scary anymore. Ten years ago people would be like, ‘Yeah I’m gonna start a record label,’ [and you’d respond] ‘You’re outa your mind.’

I think now is a great time for people to be getting educated about what’s available and the resources that are just there for artists, managers and developing booking agents, attorneys. Attorneys are extremely, extremely important in an artist's career. I think having a great attorney is more valuable to me than being signed up with a label, especially in early days.

Ritch Esra: Okay. You know, for artists who are serious about having a life in music what advice do you have for them?

Alex Shenitsky: Be patient. You don’t know what the thing, that’s gonna be the thing, that makes everything start kinda happening. You don’t know what that thing is gonna be. You should be just open minded, and stay creative, and no matter what you have to be patient. ‘Cause Again, you don’t know what song, what show, what person, what thing that’s gonna lead to another thing, that’s gonna lead to another thing. That’s, you know, one of the other things I talk to artists I work with all the time about. Just kinda staying the course! The only way to make this happen is by ‘makin it happen! It’s not gonna happen by sitting at home and not writing songs. and not playing shows.

Eric Knight: Yeah, you’re playing the long game. It’s a marathon not a race.

Alex Shenitsky: It really is! You have to… I wanna work with artists that want to go through the steps! If you’re looking for it to happen short and fast it’s probably--you’re not gonna have a long career. I mean, you could have a big career, it may not be a long one. I just… I enjoy watching artists and working with artists. I wanna work with artists over ten, twenty years. Like, I don’t wanna work with someone and get super close, and invested, and you know watch their career come-and-go in two years. Hopefully it’s a good two years but, you know, I’d like to be in it for longer than that and really develop something bigger.

Ritch Esra: Yeah, it’s interesting you see a lot of peoples careers who unfortunately--and we don’t have to name names--that’s happened to. Where you know--like somebody put the accelerator pedal--floored it on their career and their career was over in three years! When if they’d made different decisions just creatively, business wise, financially they could’ve had a career a lot longer. It’s… Bob Lefsetz writes about that a lot. Of the lost art of saying no--

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah.

Ritch Esra: To certain things. As it applies to this particular silo of our conversation, Alex. Where you say yes to too many things. I mean, it reminds me of the interview I read--which I thought was a very wise realization of self awareness--with Beyonce one time where she said, “I made the mistake very early when I got really hot of saying yes to way, way too many things… It dawned on me one night after a gig somewhere in the middle of nowhere… And I pulled into a 711…. Getting some drink or something I saw three magazine covers staring back at me, of myself, and I realized I had gone too far. I had given too much access. Too much too soon… And there’s blow back from that… And I realized in that moment there is something to be said about less is more.”

It’s interesting! Here, you’re hearing that from someone who’s probably one of the biggest stars in the world and it’s one of the reasons she has lasted fifteen, sixteen years after making that statement.
It’s because she didn’t floor her career to a red light like so many have out of the fear that, ‘Oh my god I’ll never have this again! I better say yes to everything,’ and then, like you said, the career is big but it’s awfully short.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah! I mean, and Beyonce knew she was gonna have bigger records coming down the road. She knew that she needed to be cautions.

Ritch Esra: Precisely. You know, I wanted to ask you about theJohn Varvatos situation. That was a unique kind of situation. Here you were working for a record label that was part of an entirely different business entity, not even entertainment, but part of a fashion empire and legendary one within the culture. How did you find working at a label of that orientation different from your experiences working in the record business which were more traditionally oriented? Were there any distinctions that stood out in your mind?

Alex Shenitsky: I mean it was really… There were… The main difference was really just working with another, working in tandem with another company that wasn’t a record label. Really it was a learning experience. Wanting to learn about that world but being able to kind of help funnel opportunities between. So the deal was with Republic so we had full resources at Republic. To be able to go back-and-forth with this kind of fashion machine, and this massive record label, and explore these opportunities it opened more doors than a normal situation would have. Also John being so hands-on… He also has the ability to open doors that not everyone would be able to open for their artists. So the access to certain things and people, that was a really amazing luxury.

Eric Knight: Yeah! I’m not sure if you were involved with the singing with Bad Flower--’cause they’ve been having a lot of success on rock radio--were you involved with that project and could you tell us a little bit about it if you were?

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah! I was involved in signing them. Rob Stevenson an A&R executive at Republic had played a song for--had played Jon and I this song that had just gotten played on locals, Hey Rock Locals Only with Kat Corbett. We were just blown away by the song, went and saw them, had them come out and play a show. Like a showcase for John which was like a big event that he was putting on, had them play. Yeah! We ended up putting out the first record.

Eric Knight: Yeah and I think they’ve had a couple a number one rock songs on rock radio, I believe.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah, they’re doing awesome. I’m really stoked for them.

Ritch Esra: Alex, let me ask you where can people best connect with you on socials or otherwise?

Alex Shenitsky: I’m kind of an Instagram guy, for the most part. It’s just my name @instagram. Alex Shenitsky @instagram.

Ritch Esra: How is that spelled?
Alex Shenitsky: S-H-E-N-I-T-S-K-Y

Ritch Esra: Okay, so Instagram that’s the best place to connect with you.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah and that’s usually where I spend my social media time. I don’t really--I’m not on FaceBook that much, I’m not on Twitter that much. They’re there but I just don’t tend to use them as much; but I’m also on always - I’m also on my email which is also my last name @gmail.

Ritch Esra: Okay, great. I really wanna thank you for taking the time to do this. This was a great conversation.

Alex Shenitsky: Yeah I enjoyed it. Thanks guys.

Ritch Esra: Thank you!

Eric Knight: Thank you so much.

Ritch Esra: Thank you so much

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