MUBUTV Insider Podcast Episode Transcript
[Jenn Tolman Hurst]

Ritch Esra: Jenn thank you so much for joining us, we really appreciate it

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Thank you so much Ritch, I’m excited

Ritch Esra: I am too welcome. I always like to start these interviews with the question, when in your life, did you know that music would be your professional career path?

Jenn Tolman Hurst: So for me luckily I grew up with a father who was a music manager of Crosby Stills and Nash and a couple of other wonderful acts and so I was just always objected to it and got to go to like the concerts in the backstage whole situation that was so fun and exciting and you know throughout my life he was always on tour for many months of the year and I would just be home like wondering what his other life was and wondering what he was doing and I think it was probably when I like I went to my first Crosby Stills and Nash show and my dad just laid backstage and I heard these songs brought to life. Like live music it's just the most magical experience for so many people to you know first to hear these recording the songs resume with you so much in your life and then you go and you see the actual musicians playing them live up on the stage and you're feeling the energy and you're enjoying it around other people who are stealing the same energy and I just always wanted to be part of what contributed to those experiences for people like bringing live music to the masses and that was probably like the very first experience. I was at least five years old and was like so much fun this is so exciting I got to love the way that I feel I wants like how people feel this forever

Ritch Esra: Great,

Eric Knight: You know Jenn, you've been involved in artist management for about 15 years now. Over 15 years, how has the role of management evolved over that period of time for you?

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Well the business is always, always changing every single day. And so I think the overall artist management aspects of just being there for your clients day in and day out all to support them like, being a music manager it's so much beyond the business it's very personal you have like your clients are your family and so that part never goes away but from streaming like when I first started 16 years ago I mean that was my face and my people are putting their songs up on there and being discovered but we didn't have Spotify or apple music or Pandora or Amazon or any of those things and now it's the web 3 in the NFT world and so it's just like a constant game of catch up and trying to make sure that you're in the know of everything that's coming up and next and you know how your ears to the pulse so that you're informing your clients like this is the next wave this is it's just like almost if you're not doing that like if you're not having this conversation with other managers and other intelligent business people and tech people and are constantly one step ahead and you're going to like literally just got left in the dust and it's going to be beneficial for your clients. So I think that aspect, the relationship with the artist is always the same but yeah this business it's just every evolving and ever-changing so you really have to like, continue your conversations with your friends and your co-workers and all the contacts that you have in the music, tech, TV and entertainment space over all. So that you know what's up and that your clients are benefiting from that

Eric Knight: Yeah it is a constant Evolution

Ritch Esra: Tell us about your company, Streamline Talent Group, I noticed that you manage, I guess primarily female artists, is that by design?

Jenn Tolman Hurst: It’s not not by design, it's just how things always ended up for me. It's crazy I probably would maybe prefer to manage guys sometime. Yeah I was at Vector management for five or six years and while I was there I managed ZeeZee Ward, and Avril Lavigne, Rachel Platton and when the pandemic hit I pivoted to starting my own company it was something that I always wanted to do and I figured because Vector was out of Live Nation and Live Nation was obviously hurting with the live music business and everything that was going on with it so I just like took a leap of faith and started my own company luckily Rachel Platton came with me and some of my partners at Vector, James Deaner who is so amazing and empowering and supportive set me up with a Kelsy Karter who is an incredible rock artist who I manage and I just started working with Leah cat who's just exploding on Tik-Tok she has a song called a few Anthem that's blowing up shades of sun coming out tomorrow called 10 Things I Hate About You that already has a 15 million videos needs to it and then I'm developing another artist in Kacey Bear and actually just last week I partnered with MDDN which is Joel and Benji Madden’s management company Joey Simmrin who's the president who I just adore and I'm just very confident that they're going to be able to like be the team and crew of that I need to help take all of the women to the next level because now things are opening up and they're touring again and we’re releasing music and everything is just amping. So I was like okay now at this point I can really benefit from having like a full team behind me but yes for the past two years I've just been doing my own company. Developing these girls recording their new albums and focusing on tiktok and these other avenues that are so great for exposure these days. The female thing was not by design it just is what it is.

Ritch Esra: Wonderful, wonderful.

Eric Knight: I wanted to ask you based on your experience do you find that new artist and act today or more Savvy and knowledgeable about the business than in previous eras

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Absolutely especially the younger ones because they sort of grew up in that digital Tik Tok social media era and still like, there's plenty of times where they’re schooling me on what school and how to Market themselves and that's like what I love about my clients too like they really know their brands like I've had clients before where it’s like okay, let's sit down let's figure out what the Brand's is, let's all have him put on it and like strategize. Then now my clients are just like oh no this is what it is, this is what is working I know I can see because these videos are blowing up it's like they have full control and creatively they and I don't know if that's like a growing up in the social media era and they just know what they posted what gets the most interaction or you don't like I'm not sure exactly how it got to that point but yeah I'm finding that people are definitely now the younger ones especially just like have a hold in their own careers and like I have this like Leah Kate, for her it's like I came up and I'm like okay so I know with the DSP is like if we're doing a whole roll out typically we should do it like every 6 weeks, a different song like separate it perfectly by the book, blah blah blah, give the DSP’s time to ingest the music and you know like, figure out what editorial playlist blah blah. She’s like, no. She'll put a song out one day and then tease the next one the next week and then be like I want, it's doing well it's blowing up I want to put it out now and like songs that were doing but that's coming out tomorrow it's literally just been 20 days it's the last song and she's right. Like I try and go by what I've learned by the manager book of like what you're supposed to but like, it is the Wild Wild West and like she knows and she's proving to be right and so I'm just like okay like I'm your manager but I’m just going to sit back and follow your lead because whatever you’re doing is working and like these kids these days, the teenagers and they're just consuming at such a massive rate, that you have to keep feeding it. It's like if you continually are doing what I would do initially which was like here's a song like let's promote the shit out of it for like 6 weeks and then after and then it's like the kids are getting sick of seeing videos of like this theme song over and over and over and over on social and so they want like the artist to continuously just be switching it up

Eric Knight: Which I guess on the flip side makes it hard too because then you have the problem of getting all this material at like how much can you funnel that out you know, but it must be a pleasure for you working with artists like this that have already are super avvy and makes your life easier as opposed to having an artist that's really hard to work with

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Like I can’t say enough amazing things about this artist Leah. Like every session she goes into she comes out with a hit and so like the past couple of months, she did sessions, she's I'm going on the Madison Beer Tour next week. She's like direct support for Madison in Europe and like we knew we had like these couple of months leading up to that to her and she was just working so hard every single day and getting heads out of the sessions every single day so yeah now we just have this older and she's just helping them all out I've never seen anything like it she's like a machine yeah.

Ritch Esra: In listening to you, it's very interesting to me because what you're describing is a whole new paradigm shift in the way that music is put out. I'm curious to ask you, do you find that extends because and I'm asking you particularly because you were involved in a lot of areas, you find that extends to other areas? Do you think artists today are involved in more areas than just their primary like music being and television shows. Artists being in movies acting in this, involved in fashion, involved in games. Are you finding that more with artists today than in the past?

Jenn Tolman Hurst: I think definitely for sync and Licensing in into TV and film especially during the pandemic when we weren't able to tour that had become a major focus. And like all of my clients to put together a Dropbox folders of songs for page for TV and film and so it was like the ones you had publishing deals the ones who have labels behind them and those departments that was incredible to be able to share music with them and get it pushed out and like Rachel platten for instance who I manage she has such great luck and like the sync and licensing worlds with her Fight Song and you know so many different songs from her catalog and then, Rachel also had a couple of Fox shows that she went on and was a guest judge like I Can See Your Voice and so yeah I definitely think like it was a time over the past two years to be able to explore those other avenues because when the clients aren't on the road they’re available and actively needed to find new avenues of making money and so yeah just like TV and film, on camera, sync and licencing, branding deals and he did like a great deal for my kind Kelsy Karter with Monster Energy drink and she would just like be home filming contents for their socials and for her socials and yeah like I don't know if we would have had the time to focus on those other avenues if we were just touring and stuff okay all right that's what I was thinking

Eric Knight: let me ask you Jenn given the far broader landscape that populates the culture today with the DSP’s and online social media Live Events video content and other platforms is there a certain level of development or a degree of Market awareness that labels or managers even expect from music artist like you have some of that expectation initially

I think that the musically will absolutely expect that like you cannot be I mean there's like the really cool unique artist that are like I'm not going to do social media thing you know it's just not like I don't understand it or they don't feel like Their audience lives there but those are really rare exceptions and to be honest like it's a huge part of marketing plans these days is like you know a lot of the labels and things will hire like a digital marketing company his life helping with the social media and I like now a lot of marketing dollars like what would have typically going into ads for maybe like commercials our radio is now like ads into your Facebook and your Instagram and sponsored posts and yeah if you're not on your socialist then that is a big problem because it would be a huge hole in what is now considered the marketing plans for the labels in your partners

Ritch Esra: Jenn, in your opinion as a manager in terms of when you're looking to sign new clients and when you're making that decision to take on a new clients that you have managed before how important is it for artists to be educated about their chosen career path

That's a great question words because it's probably like the most important thing for me personally like I never want to get into a relationship and it really is a relationship like before I take on clients like we have to date for a while it's like you're getting into almost a marriage with this person and you're going to be talking to them all day, day in and day out so you want to make sure that you know you got a long and your personalities are good fit but like most of all no manager wants to ever look back and feel like they're working harder than their clients are. Your clients always need to want it more and they need to be working just as hard if not harder and so that's the first thing that like I think about and look in a person when I'm considering working with them

That’s a pet peeve we always talked about like we cannot you know you I can't want this more than you

I can't give you a career, I can’t make this happen, you’re going to want this more than I do.

I’m just your manager and even thought that is the hugest job of the team, it’s like I’m not the artist and I can guide you business wise and all the things but like when it comes to the creative and the talent the vision of your brand and all those things, that’s not my personal strong point. I can put together a strategy all day long but what you’re talking about and what you stand for has to be authentic. It has to come from your heart. No one can fake that for you or teach it to you. You have to just have that inside.

Eric Knight: I think there's a misconception with management that the artist thinks so I've got a manager. That's it you know they're going to part the Red Sea and you know everything. Success is coming you know so I think it leads me to my next question which is a great segue but at what point do you think Jenn that an artist needs actual management? At what point do you think that is?

Jenn Tolman Hurst: That's a hard question because I have worked with clients said oh I know I can all degrees of their careers but I really like I wouldn't take on a client personally unless I was seeing some real action going on or at we like even with and their small community like it's fine you don't have to have tens of thousands of followers but like I do want to see that who's in your life even if it's friends or family like I don't care but I want to see that like there are people there in your community who have known you for a few years who are engaging and who are interacting and it work we are really liking the product that you're putting out whether or not it's music and it's just like you're like whatever it is you have to have likes and if you're not likeable to the the community and the people who are like in your life right now it's hard to imagine seeing you be likable and like you know marketable to the masses so I just like to see like you don't have to have this impressive huge number of followers right away but

Eric Knight: you have to see some activity going on

Jenn Tolman Hurst: You have to see some interactions. See a lot of likes, if you have 500 followers and like 12 likes on your post it like, okay something is not connecting here and you can clearly see that right off the bat

Eric Knight: what are the most important qualities for an artist or band to look for in a potential manager?

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Oh my gosh there's so many. I think that, like right off the bat, vibe and connection like you have to look at that person and know that you like them, know that you trust them, know that you can rely on them. Things get really really tough like especially the more successful you get like there's things that go wrong all the time and it's just like a team it's like who do you picture yourself in the trenches with day in and day out who are going to help protect you and you know whose decisions you trust because it is your life in the end and obviously like experience is amazing and intelligence and all of those things. Like you see so many artists these days who come up and then like they're best friends are just their managers and then they figure out the business has a go long and rely on the guidance of the lawyers and the teams and like that and stuff okay a lot of the time so like I definitely would have to say that it's just like their most fundamental thing to look out for is the trust and you know your relationship because I've also, I can't tell you again how many different artists that I've met with or worked with who are like trapped in some super messed up management agreement, Sunset clause, completely taken advantage situation. There are those people still out there like those types of people are never going to go away there's bad people everywhere and if not being cognizant of that and like looking out for that from the get-go then that's going to be your biggest mistake right away.

Ritch Esra: Jenn what books or movies have you seen in your life that have really been inspirational to you on a professional level that you could recommend to our audience

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Well obviously I always have to plug Don Passman’s,

Eric Knight: That's our number one requested book, our number one!

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Yeah and I actually got to have the opportunity to have Don be a lawyer on one of my clients for a few years and he is incredible and is so amazing and so obviously that one and then movies, Spinal Tap like…

Eric Knight: Ah yes Spinal Tap.

Jenn Tolman Hurst: I actually have a client that’s like doing her own version of Spinal Tap as a TV show right now that we're trying to get sold but that one. I mean my favorite movie is Get Into the Greek, every time I have a client play there I try to make some, I like to make a million jokes about that but yeah that’s probably it.

Ritch Esra: Ok, alright

Eric Knight: Jenn what advice can you offer our listeners who are wanting to pursue a career as an artist manager?

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Well I could tell you what my path was and that's what I know back then it worked out well for me. I think like being an assistant, that's definitely like important whether it's starting out in the agencies or label or music management company but that's where you're getting first-hand experience and learning the ropes and making connections and it's like you know the people now I'm 37 and the executives that I'm talking to every day are like my friends from the Mailroom really like my friends to I grew up with my money is like everyone working as assistants together and it's really true what they say it's like you know you have to be nice to everyone to make sure that you keep your relationships great and strong your reputation because you never know who the assistant can be in 10 years like I am seeing a lot of the assistant friends like presidents of labels and CEOs and all of those things because also like in this age of Technology a lot of the younger people who have knowledge in those worlds like the ones that are getting put in his top spot because like in the day and age of streaming and tiktok and the way that those are running the show the people who know about them are getting to do the people at the top because that's the most important thing and so yeah I would definitely say to move to LA or New York and Nashville you know those big music city is in just got a kick-ass assistant job and soak up all the knowledge that you can. Make friends with as many people as you can, network. That would be my best advice for getting start in artist management for sure that's like where I learned everything

Ritch Esra: Same question but what advice would you have for people who are interested in our audience who want to pursue a career as a professional recording artist today?

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Today I would just say to feel whether I would say to right right right as much as you can and in wherever you live by yourself a music community of people who you can create with because again I feel like I'm talking about social media and technology so much but it's like you can be discovered and you can be plucked out from wherever you are it doesn't matter like the world is your oyster. So literally just like find a community around you and create amazing songs with amazing music and put it out there. To start out I would be on everything like I know that's a full-time job but like I would have a an instagram and a Spotify and then Facebook and Tik-Tok and it just like what everything, as much content as you can out there because it does get discovered and I would also say and this is like something let me do it right now in the NFT World like the Discord Community is felt like build out your own Community like not just in the creating of music in real life but also on the internet like be meeting people be interacting with people be sharing your music with people and your arts and you can create your own small army from wherever you are and grow with that like people are just getting discovered in the most abstract ways these days. You could be doing your farming or like all these niche communities on Tik Tok and like have your music out there on these videos and be discovered in like takes off and the labels like the management team's we have employees specifically out there like what the A and R Scouts used to be is now like, social media Tik-Tok Scouts and they're just like scouring these platforms all day long, finding music that is reacting and there's people in the back end he was beating us that information and still like you may just think that it seems like it's never going to happen but like it says like you will find you. If it’s Quality Music and you know it's amazing and people like it then you'll be found

Eric Knight: Jenn where can people best connect with you and the Streamline Talent Group

Jenn Tolman Hurst: On my Instagram probably is where I spend the most time it’s @jenntolman, just DM me on my instagram and I’ll see it and respond.

Ritch Esra: Jenn, I can’t thank you enough. We really appreciate you doing this.

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Thank you! I appreciate it, it was really fun

Ritch Esra: Thanks for coming by and giving the time.

Jenn Tolman Hurst: Thanks Ritch, Thanks Eric

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